Forums:
I've just been catching up on forum and see some who share the heartache of rectal and/or uterine prolapse. Combined with the challenges of IC healing, this is almost unbearable at times! I am holding off a trip to the doctor as I fear surgery may be recommended and have enough going on as is...I am considering a pessary which I hear works for some and not others. I do know that the swelling during die-off increases the problem, but not being able to walk is becoming major! Please if you have the problem or want to share thoughts and experience on this...all input so welcome...
am sending this again as not
am sending this again as not sure it went through? please excuse if it did...
Dear Lolo, I know this pain.
Dear Lolo, I know this pain. It is horrible. For me it was rectal prolapse. I knew if I went to the doctor too, it would be surgery. I kept working and working with Dr.B on it. It was as terrible for me as the IC. I could tell rhodiola was really helping me in this, but I had to give up dairy, gluten, and nightshades in the process. This is what helped me. I know we are all different. I am not on rhodiola anymore as I came to a point that I had to move on to something else. I kept lots of notes in the whole process which helped me in figuring out to let go of the gluten, dairy, and nightshades. I also learned for my body to only eat about 2 T of starches with my first two meals of the day, and no starch at night (Dr. B approved). I also have my veggies cooked or semi cooked which has
helped in my healing. I take 1-2 T of olive oil with every meal as well. I cook my apples and blueberries, and only until recently have I been able to tolerate half and uncooked apple. I am thrilled! I am also so happy to report that for the past two weeks I have had no rectal prolapse whatsoever. I am beyond disbelief having lived with this so long and having seen my grandmother get operated on for it. I know I have to be so careful and keep working with Dr.B to keep the inflammation down. But I want to encourage you with my progress. Sending love and a big hug to you.
hi Mrs A and thank you for
hi Mrs A and thank you for your compassion and sharing of info. I,too have a rectal prolapse and hear you understanding the inflammation and the diet. mybdiet is currently list 1 (was up to list 3 but had to start again when a setback with necessary meds due to an unre.lated problem) am gluten free and apple free and dairy free and sugar free etc. The prolapse has occasionally been swollen with die-off times
Sorry, msge ended..am using
Sorry, msge ended..am using iPad and crazy-making. So am scaring myself with thoughts that this time may mean it's worse and treatment won't help. Your reply gives me some hope. Happy to hear you are free of this and moving on..it sounds like you didn, t try a pessary? has anyone else? Or more info? healing wishes!
No, I didn't try a pessary.
No, I didn't try a pessary. I just keep working with Dr. B on details of my diet and protocol in conjunction with any increase or decrease of inflammation. Have you talked to Dr. B about the pessary? I pray you will get relief so soon.
I'm so glad you posted this -
I'm so glad you posted this - I often wonder the same thing. I too have prolapse - rectal, bladder and uterine urrrrggg :( I wonder what the Brizmans think of a pessary too. Surgery has been suggested to me by urogynooclogists too - but I don't think I'll ever do that too many things could go wrong and tax our already delicate system. My prolapse is pretty manageable with the exception around ovualtion - then it really bulges and drives me insane! Sorry I don't have much information, but wanted to post to let you guys know you're not alone.
Claire
Wow: I can't believe the
Wow: I can't believe the relief I feel just hearing from you guys!!! It is such a lonely (unspeakable) problem and my mind really goes to work on it. How wonderful just to have 2 cohorts in not having the surgery AND in confirming the fact that the prolapse is worse with inflammation, whether with die-of or cycle. Thank you Claire and Mrs A for reaching out . It helps to have some company with this, right? When it is worse, do you have any tricks to manage walking? Lately I have surrendered and just keep my feet up....aaaargh! That's why the pessary question...Does this restrict your lives in a big way (aside from our IC)?
Yes, it is restricting. I
Yes, it is restricting. I know how you both feel, so worrisome! I really feel as our inflammation decreases these problems will abate or become so much more manageable. When I am inflamed badly I have to put up my feet and just rest to settle things down. I also take a bath with a few drops of lavender
oil, Dr. B approved, to also calm things down. The foods that
help me calm things down are fish, sauteed cabbage, and loads if cooked tolerated veggies with lots of water.
Right after I wrote to you I had inflammation this morning from trying something new. I try super small amounts, but if I react negatively it will take me a few days of being very careful to straighten things out.
It is not always just food, but sometimes being on my feet too long or doing something too strenuous. Even picking up my 4 year old or grandchildren will set it off, so I have to be so careful. Likewise, with my bladder setting off frequency. I think it's just all a narrow management of the inflammation for me and learning what keeps it down. I am constantly learning what my body can't handle and what it can. It is sure a very patient and persistent process, with a lot of prayer for me. And when I am off my feet, I study and study to get better and to learn new recipes, which gives me something to look forward to for when I am back on my feet again. I hope this is if some help. Love to you all!
Thank you Mrs A! I realized
Thank you Mrs A! I realized as I read your caring message, that just prior to this Proplapse session, I had a weekend trip with family, pushed the sightseeing and walking and really flared !! Hello! Sometimes "sharing our experiences" is crucial to the healing journey. I really hadn't connected the inflammation's effect on the prolapse (was focussed only on bladder) until your sharing..I spend my "feet up" time doing as you describe..researching and planning and studying....reading in general. I will really try to accept this state and work from there with the new awareness. Your compassion and generosoity is deeply felt. I hope this lightens your burden also Claire. Let's agree to share any new "pop" (prolapse) info that comes our way?? prayers for you both and hoping for others to join in..
"Accept what is; let go of what was; have Faith in what will be
Yes, I agree! I am so glad I
Yes, I agree! I am so glad I was of some help to you Lolo. I thought of something else that helps me to keep the inflammation down and that is switching up my starches each meal that I eat them. I ate rice two times in a row because I was out of navy beans yesterday, and that didn't help my
condition at all. But if I skip a starch at one of my first two
meals, it's not good either. I am on list three and have to
switch up the nuts just like I do my starches. So it's a bit like trying to stay on a balance beam as I figure this all out. We will all keep working together to get well! So many patients on the forum have been such a help to me from sharing their experiences. You are so right that it lifts the burden. I am so very grateful.
Thank you ladies! This has
Thank you ladies! This has been very helpful :) Very grateful for this forum that's for sure :)
Mrs A: just to go further on
Mrs A: just to go further on the inflammation: When you speak of a diet change being "not good" and that it takes a few days to get rid of, do you mean the prolapse swells and protrudes? or you experience a bladder flare with pain and all that goes with that? or maybe both?
Hi Lolo,
Hi Lolo,
I am struggling for the past five days with inflammation so the prolapse is swelling and protrudes. My bladder is affected sometimes, as today, with frequency. I also felt a bit nauseous this morning, but that got better within an hour. I feel so bad as I was doing so well for almost two weeks. The first time ever for a solid block of time with this condition. So I am doing my lavender bath today and keeping my feet up. I think this time it was numerous things that caused the inflammation. Protocol change, tried a new food, and stress in our extended family. I thought I was doing well on the protocol change so I tried to up my amounts to where Dr. B first prescribed. Didn't work, so I will go back to where I was before. It will take me awhile to recoup I think! I hope you are doing good. :)
Oh, I forgot I had my teeth
Oh, I forgot I had my teeth cleaned this past week too. That always stirs something up negatively in my body as well.
Ah dear Mrs A: I am so sorry
Ah dear Mrs A: I am so sorry to hear you're on the downside...your description could be mine at times. It's not an easy trip we're on; I'm sending a hug and warm wishes. Thank you for the reply while you're feeling so punk . What we have to remember (and I'm down, too) is that we know it is POSSIBLE to feel better and encouraged because we've had that experience too, so onward and upward. The dental trip usually gives me after effects as well. It's still amazing that one wrong move, can set me off...take heart, feet up and "one step at a time" ...all sound like platitudes, but, are the truth!
Thank you Lolo...you are so
Thank you Lolo...you are so right...onward and upward! Thank you for your sympathetic heart. This is so difficult at times. I am learning to manage it better, but I feel like I am balancing on a tight rope and can fall off so easily. Or I feel like I am putting together a puzzle as I figure this thing out and might miss one important piece to make things go more smoothly.
To compare notes with you, do you find the inflammation is down more if you eat your veggies cooked? I eat all mine cooked as well as my nuts and fruit. Do you find the inflammation is also down more if you mix your veggies? I just had asparagus, onions, and cauliflower. This mixing of veggies helps me. It also helps if I snack on them as well.
Lastly, how do you do with carbs? I find that if I make a waffle batter out of rice flour, I do so much better if it is sitting overnight in the fridge before I use it. I only can have half of one waffle in the morning, but it is simply fabulous to have some sort of bread like sustenance!
I hope you are doing better today. :)
I do have four slices of raw
I do have four slices of raw apple a day, forgot about that. But that's about it for anything raw. I also do well on almond milk, but the almonds are soaked beforehand. My digestion seems to need a lot of help in the breaking down of fibers in foods to avoid the inflammation. I can't wait for the day I can eat spelt, dairy, and potatoes and tomatoes again. These foods really increase my inflammation right now. Also starchy squashes as well. Do you experience any of this as well?
Wow lots of good advice here!
Wow lots of good advice here! I just wanted to dive in to add that many things we do increase intra-abdominal pressure (Imagine your abdomen is a balloon). So when we hold our breath and bare down, or when we simply "suck in" our stomach, which many western women unconsciously do, or when we walk while unconsciously thrusting our ribcage (very common) this makes all kinds of risk of hernia and prolapse. Here are two blog posts by Katy Bowman regarding intra-abdominal pressure. Once the prolapse is there it is of course more tricky, but I still think this awareness needs to be there for overall health. There is much to read on this subject and Katysays.com is a good place to start. Also the book Alignment Matters, available on Amazon. It is hard to change all these things overnight, but important to start somewhere. Hoping everyone uses a Squatty Potty? Inexpensive ones available at amazon. Lots of warm water to drink first thing in the morning (I am sure you veterans do this!) And NO bearing down, right? xoxo Mimi
Even though these posts seem like they are about Diastisis Recti (abdominal separation ) "Don't hang up!" as Katy says. These two blog posts are about all kinds of pressure-based conditions in the abdomen and pelvis. PLEASE READ ON! :) This could help you stay away from surgery!! Prolapse is not just about diet. Alot of it is about alignment and the wrong kind of intra-abdominal pressure. Feel free to PM me if you have more questions. You can also meet with a Restorative Exercise Specialist if you can find one in your area. Look at www.restorativeexercise.com
http://www.katysays.com/under-pressure-part-1/
http://www.katysays.com/under-pressure-part-2/
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Wanted to add that if you can
Wanted to add that if you can improve your alignment while walking, standing and sitting, this will properly strengthen all of your pelvic floor muscles (NO Kegels!) and this will help strengthen that hammock of muscles that holds EVERYTHING in down there!
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Mrs A..out in the ether is my
Mrs A..out in the ether is my message of yesterday to you. However, it mainly shared my diet foods. They are very basic..back to list one. I haven't had any fruit since treatment except for frozen organic blueberries (friend's farm) and avodados. Starches aren't that big for me so locally baked kamut bread and brown rice cakes and potatoes, squash are carb staples. Veggies include a raw salad, but otherwise are cooked. Still, these bouts of swollen prolapse occur. They seem more related to a change in herbs or lots of walking. When my daily life and diet and treatment is closer to being balanced, no problems. The trick for me (I guess for us all) is finding that balance. I hope today is better for you. I had an adjustment w/Dr M yesterday and it relieved the extreme discomfort almost immediately...amazing...
Mimi: I think you are right on it. I didn't mention it earlier. but been following wholewoman.com (Mrs A you may find that interesting) where Christine addresses the posture, exercise etc. I have had ahysterectomy in my 20's and that seems to affect the success of this, but do agree, in any case it helps in many ways. Oh, I am truly challenged her as it seems on this journey I have spent most of my time, feet up, little exercise and schlepping around if I do. Your message is a welcome reminder to updat and get up when I can...thanks for great info; will be checking out Katy Bowman
Mrs A..out in the ether is my
Mrs A..out in the ether is my message of yesterday to you. However, it mainly shared my diet foods. They are very basic..back to list one. I haven't had any fruit since treatment except for frozen organic blueberries (friend's farm) and avodados. Starches aren't that big for me so locally baked kamut bread and brown rice cakes and potatoes, squash are carb staples. Veggies include a raw salad, but otherwise are cooked. Still, these bouts of swollen prolapse occur. They seem more related to a change in herbs or lots of walking. When my daily life and diet and treatment is closer to being balanced, no problems. The trick for me (I guess for us all) is finding that balance. I hope today is better for you. I had an adjustment w/Dr M yesterday and it relieved the extreme discomfort almost immediately...amazing...
Mimi: I think you are right on it. I didn't mention it earlier. but been following wholewoman.com (Mrs A you may find that interesting) where Christine addresses the posture, exercise etc. I have had ahysterectomy in my 20's and that seems to affect the success of this, but do agree, in any case it helps in many ways. Oh, I am truly challenged her as it seems on this journey I have spent most of my time, feet up, little exercise and schlepping around if I do. Your message is a welcome reminder to updat and get up when I can...thanks for great info; will be checking out Katy Bowman
Want to add that aligment can
Want to add that aligment can be greatly enhanced by NOT wearing positive-heeled shoes. Flat shoes are key. Totally flat. This will help stack the bones so that the pelvic floor muscles are naturally ennervated and holding things in.
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Thank you Mimi and Lolo for
Thank you Mimi and Lolo for all your helpful advice! I am reading all the websites you both mentioned and learning so much! Such fantastic help! I will put the correct posture into practice right away.
So glad you got some relief Lolo. I am doing better as well.
Hugs and heartfelt thanks to both of you.
Hello and thanks to all of
Hello and thanks to all of you on the forum for your helpful and insiteful comments. I have been in treatment for 2 months and recently have begun having a heavy feeling in my vaginal area. It is not constant and comes and goes throughout the day and then it will disappear for a few days. I thought it had to do with die off but upon reading this thread, I am wondering if this could be a prolapse. To those who are unfortunately having to deal with this, does it come and go? And to those of you who don't have prolapse, do you ever get this heavy, weighty feeling in your vagina?
Hi ejh!
Hi ejh!
A big welcome to you! You might find the wholewoman.com forum helpful that Lolo mentioned concerning prolapse. I have been learning a lot there about my condition and the importance of posture. Mimi mentioned a great site as well
about this. I hope you will get some answers soon!
Thank you Mrs. A for the very
Thank you Mrs. A for the very informative referral to the wholewoman website. I'm going to have to find the time to really study it. When I woke up today, the pain was gone but maybe it's because I had been reclined all night? I'm glad to hear you are doing better. Your dilligence and patience seem amazing. I'm sorry for the newbieness of this question, but can you explain how you know your bladder is inflamed? Does it feel different than a flare? Thank you for your helpfulness.
Your question is a good one,
Your question is a good one, because we all are so different. For me, if my bladder is inflamed, then I am in a flare. I haven't had a flare in over a year. My last one lasted about three weeks, and I got it from using a homemade salve on an aching shoulder and arm for three days. Lesson learned the hard way! That was one of my worse flares, too. So now I run everything by Dr.B before I try it. :)
Hello all,
Hello all,
I have been following this thread, and finally felt that i should let some of you know my experience. I have had bladder and rectal prolapse. Dr M worked with me for over a year with herbs etc. and I had no improvement. I finally did have surgery, for which I am actually very thankful. It is a huge step and i do feel a last resort!!!! But I was at that place. I had other problems that were delt with at the same time. I had a caruncle (protusion of the urethra...it stings alot...all of the time) and bladder leakage. All of this with IC ...i was a mess! I fathfully tried Kegals. They did not help at all. (by the way Dr M told me that they wouldn't).
If you are struggling, I too recommend "Katie Says" and "whole woman" websites. If I had this information earlier, and followed their exercises, I probably would not have gotten so bad and had to have the surgery.
I teach ballet, and i am now using alot of their principles of alighnment with my students.....things that would have saved my body!!!
If you do consider surgery, i recommend the old fashion "tying up" rather than mesh support. (I believe that there are many issues with this) That is what my doctor did for the bladder and rectal prolapse and i am very happy. For the bladder leakage he did use a product that had some mesh, and it took a long time to feel comfortable.
i am glad to talk more with anyone about my experience if it is helpful. Just email me if you wish. It is just so good to talk about these issues with someone. When i was dealling with this, I did not know a soul who had gone through it. It was a lonely and scarey experience. This forum is such a blessing!!!
Susan
PS i did try a pessary for awhile. It helped somewhat. I am glad that i tried it. I was still very uncomfortable with it. Maybe it was because of the IC and we are just uncomfortable in that area. I could never wear tampons either. But, everones experience is different. It maybe just the answer for someone else!
PSSS. I just realised that I
PSSS. I just realised that I gave just one perspective. Dr M told me that she has definitley had patients respond to the herbs etc. So...that may be you too! She will tell you when she can't do anymore. So, hang in with her. I do really trust her!!!
Suzdancer..am just on my way
Suzdancer..am just on my way out and doing a quick check of forum before. I just have to let you know NOW that I appreciate you taking the time to share this! It is so helpful and gives me more inspiration to keep on the same track. ...Your caring and your compassion and experience come across so well. Thank you...Thank you....
I'm wondering if your dancing affected the prolapse, even just to make the surgery necessary earlier than for a less active person?
Lolo,
Lolo,
Yes, definitely i do know that my dancing affected the prolapse. Someone who has a less active life style or has learned a more healing alighnment may be able to heal naturally better than i did. I am 65 and decided for me, since i was not seeing any improvement after over 1 year, i would rather have surgery sooner than later....i was having to give up everything i loved lifestyle wise. i couldn't even take a walk around the block without disasterous results.
But, again, my prolapse was partially a result of years of "faulty alignment" and unnatural strain due to my profession.
i do believe there are other stories out there of healing...so ladies speak up we want and need to hear from you. :)
I second the thank u
I second the thank u Suzdancer! Your posts were so helpful. I am trying so hard right now to keep the inflammation at bay which in turn helps with the prolapse. Did you ever try going gluten or dairy free to help? I am currently doing both but thinking about including one piece of cheese a week after reading a post over at wholewoman where someone was able to do that without problems. I am currently trying a little teff flour with good results. Just wondering if you noticed diet having an affect at all? Thank you again!
Mrs. A
Mrs. A
I did try going gluten free. Did notice that it helped my digestion, but did not notice helping the prolapse. Perhaps i was too far along. I was not at that time aware that dairy might influence the condition.
Keep working at it. You might find just the right combination for you!
Susan
I wanted to revisit this post
I wanted to revisit this post and give an update. I am doing so much better now that I have taken rice out of my diet. I am gluten, dairy, and nightshade free but I just couldn't get a handle on the prolapse until I took out the rice. I feel almost normal. I say almost because I have to be careful with my diet or it can flare up. I use navy beans and carrots as my starches, and no starch at night. I have to eat a lot of cooked veggies, I snack on them all day. I can only eat 2 T of starch per each of my two meals, the last meal only cooked veggies and meat. I can only eat very little fruit which is cooked apples and a few berries. My nuts are cooked as well. All this seems to be helping so much with the prolapse and bleeding hemmorhoids. Everything is calm and has been for quite awhile. I hope this is of help. I pray for you all and for our wonderful doctors.
Hooray! I am so happy for you
Hooray! I am so happy for you Mrs A!!!!! Thank you for posting an update which is often overlooked and so valuable. Me too!...prolapse is much better if I am careful of diet, but have not changed that, only flare up if I try some new things... This improvement seems related to die-off symptoms with the continued adjustments in protocol w/Dr M, which has greatly reduced the die-off inflammation in the pelvis, thus less pressure, thius, prolapse settled. I know from experience this may flare up again as we continue body balance...or maybe not, but for now, I celebrate with you!
"we are all just walking each other home" Ram Dass
Amzing- if you think of the
Amzing- if you think of the way Western medicine looks at a condition like prolapse- never from a inflammation standpoint! Glad things are improving ladies