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It broke my heart to read a recent post where someone said "There were a few people that I tracked when I was trying to decide if I should take this leap of faith and start working with Dr. B - I was looking forward to 'chatting' with them, and now - POOF - they're gone and it's been awfully quiet." I was one of the ones who "poofed" away early last year, when after finally getting to a good point after 16 mo's in treatment (I'd suffered with IC for 10 years prior but it became extreme in 2008), a freak injury quickly snowballed into a yearlong nightmare, as I’ll explain below. Recently coming back onto ICAMA, I've been saddened to see the marked decrease in participation, and I've been wanting to post but waiting to improve a bit more so I could offer more hope.... reading this patient's post, now seems like the right time to explain and share my story.
So as I said, by early 2010, my bladder had finally healed significantly. Then, during my exercise routine I did some squats with weights, and I felt a little sharp pain in my left knee. Since nothing showed on later tests, it was likely a minor strain/stress fracture (perhaps from incorrect positioning / too much weight / not doing squats regularly / previous high-incline walking). So I lay low with my exercising for a while. A couple times I think it may have been close to healing, but my carrying heavy groceries up the stairs -- although a usual occurrence -- may have re-exacerbated things? Soon, even walking seemed to inflame it and cause a weird discomfort like my kneecap was rubbing against my femur. Then, I started getting arthritic-like symptoms in my knee, and found it harder to do stairs or sit normally with my leg bent, all of which was so bizarre. (I think my living in a three-story place with so many stairs partly exacerbated everything.) And before long, the other knee unbelievably developed the same symptoms (maybe partly from compensation, esp on the stairs).
During this time I stayed with Matia, who was working on treating my legs. She said that while she'd never seen anything exactly like this, in that it snowballed so quickly, she thought it was IC-related and would just be a short-term issue. But I also sought out several Western doctors and had many tests because I was doubtful of Matia’s helping me since I kept getting worse. The first orthopedist was a joke (I should've listened to my gut then to get a second opinion). He prescribed physical therapy and because I felt strongly there was a structural component, I started PT (against Matia's judgment, as she advised almost complete rest). While a few times I seemed to feel better afterwards, it messed me up more in the end, so I stopped.
Then bad went to worse. Within a month it spread throughout my legs, to all the muscles and joints, with indescribable, constant pain and weakness. First I had to stop driving, then working, then almost everything else. My legs developed the worst throbbing pain, and deep to the bone aching, and burning as if they’d been set on fire, and super-sensitivity that made any position uncomfortable. They also kept getting weaker and weaker. My knees felt like twigs and my legs would shake if I stood. It felt like they'd give out any moment. I also became unable to lift even the lightest objects or pull out a chair or other everyday necessities, because we don’t realize we use our knees/legs even to a small degree with these things. It got to the point where I could barely stand. And sitting was impossible, too painful. Lying in any position caused intolerable discomfort. So I was pretty much left with lying flat on my back. In a matter of weeks I'd gone from limping to walking with a cane to not even being able to sit in a wheelchair or leave my home. Almost totally incapacitated, I could not do anything for myself. I could barely stand long enough to shower or take my pills. After a few months, I had to move in with my parents in another city where I could have more full-time care. I shot down to a frightening 99 pounds (I don’t think I even weighed that much in high school!). And I was so immobile that I started getting bedsores.... yes, bedsores! My young and formerly active self was suddenly trapped in the body of an elderly person.
At that point, the whole thing was so beyond frightening and perplexing, I was totally confused and scared out of my mind. How on earth could a tiny injury become so incredibly extreme, and so quickly? Why had it spread throughout my legs? Who do I listen to -- the Western docs or Matia? How much longer would my legs be like this... or was it now a permanent condition? Matia believed strongly that it was a case of my IC (=systemic inflammation) moving to my legs (=new weak point). She reassured me that she'd seen all sorts of extreme and weird situations happen to the IC body, that the IC body can have an exaggerated response to all sorts of things including injuries, and she was still fully confident I would get better. (In my research I also found a rare version of fibro called localized fibro that can start after an assault to the body like an injury and it fit my symptoms (I didn't fit the regular fibro symptoms), but Matia didn't think so and didn't want to put any label on it.) While I trusted Matia and the holistic approach, and she'd certainly healed my bladder, I had major concerns because I was only getting worse under her care and it had now been months like this. I couldn't be out of work, out of my home, interminably. So I sought out further Western doctors. They didn't really have any explanations but they were alarmed by my degree of incapacitation and weight loss and suggested I get on meds. But their suggestions (i.e. anti-inflammatories, pain meds, protein shakes for my weight and physical therapy) were all no-no's with Matia's treatment (and things she said would truly make me much worse). The final internist believed it was a fibro-like situation and biochemical, and that a certain class of antidepressants would truly help my legs and give me much-needed psychological and pain relief, but I wasn't ready to go there yet. Many of the doctors also expressed disdain, with comments like "It could be the herbs -- you don't know what's in those things."
Though I was exhausted and hopeless after months of fruitless researching, because I still felt strongly the issue could be structural, I renewed my researching. I ended up coming upon an orthopedic condition, patellafemoral syndrome, that except for the severity fit my symptoms, some of which were very unique. I realized then that it could be both structural and IC, that maybe the injury set off a structural condition which then set off my IC inflammation. I'm glad I pursued this line of thinking and kept my scope wide instead of blinding following Matia or any provider, because only we know our bodies best and should honor what our gut tells us. So I sought out a new orthopedist who concurred and said I'd recover just fine but it would take a few months, and I needed to get my legs moving ASAP and start the proper physical therapy for PFS. "Complete recovery?!" "Only a few more months?!" I was so happy and relieved. Finally, some hope. Finally, a diagnosis and treatment plan and timetable. (Yes, I felt conflicted, as Matia had been recommending almost complete rest and no PT, though once I told her the diagnosis she said it certainly sounds like it could make sense and I could proceed cautiously, but was still concerned about it inciting the inflammation.) My excitement, however, was short-lived. Long story short, while the first few weeks of physical therapy I had small improvements, the minute they put ankle weights on me for my exercises, that apparently reincited the inflammation and I got worse all over again. I thought it was temporary, esp as the ankle weights were sooo minimal. But as days turned to weeks, my daily Level 1 exercises remained harder to do and I couldn't progress at all, which was a complete conundrum to the physical therapists and me. (However, I did continue the PT, as I have to this day, because the bone-on-bone grating resolved and stayed that way -- whether that's from the PT or just from starting to move again, I don't know.)
By that point, I was deflated. I had already suffered through plenty of depression and fear up until then, but now I sunk into an even deeper darkness. It felt unending, inescapable. Even though Matia kept saying she was certain I'd come out of this just fine, it seemed too improbable, especially as I was only getting worse and as she'd admittedly never treated my situation before and was a bladder not legs specialist, I thought she was just being optimistic to keep me going. I didn't know how much longer I could live like that, and fantasized about suicide often (though I couldn't bring myself to plan or do it, maybe more out of fear I wouldn't succeed and end up in a worse state!). I was worn down by months of chronic and extreme pain (and I thought my IC had been bad!). I was wrestling with intense fear because of the incredible uncertainty. I was having major marital stress, dealing with a husband who threw his anger on me, as he couldn't handle the stress of it all... me not getting any better or having a timeline, "throwing money down the drain" with so many pills and she had me taking them 5x/day!, going through a probiotics bottle every three days at one point! I couldn't handle the financial pressure of all the bills piling up. I started getting unbearable anxiety attacks. Not to mention I was going crazy mentally from losing my entire life really, and my independence. I couldn't work, but I struggled with not being productive. I needed the mental stimulation yet I wasn't able to do much. I could barely do anything for myself, and I hated that I was so dependent and such a burden on everyone else. I couldn't get out, let alone do anything out, because I could hardly stand, and I couldn't be in a wheelchair because I couldn't sit. I could barely handle reading or even watching tv; it's like my brain was fried (which, I've since learned, is basically what happens as your brain chemistry changes when you endure chronic pain long enough). I had no desire for food. I was desperately lonely but at the same time couldn't handle talking to anyone! I was so sensitive to people's energy. I was living in a city away from my husband, my home, my dog, my friends, my family, my therapist. I was losing my mind and just couldn't cope anymore.... It felt like all possible ways to challenge me to my limits were thrown at me at once, and I just had no fight left in me.
So after a torturous month going up and back on whether to take meds, I finally decided to start Elavil (for pain & depression/anxiety, usually Matia's first drug choice). Even though it was a beyond-low dose, half of the smallest pill they make, the side effects were really rough but finally abated after a month. They also worsened my bladder very briefly, then Matia got it under control. But at that point the benefits outweighed the risks. Even though my experience was still hell, the meds made it a more bearable hell. I was definitely better able to cope. They also helped me regain some appetite, sleep and mental clarity, which was huge. (That internist who had thought my issue was biochemical and had wanted me to get on a drug like this was happy with my response and wanted me to continue going up on them, as he believed it would 'cure' my legs. But I stayed at the lowest dose per Matia's strong advice that any more would be problematic and even if I improved symptomatically, it would drive the inflammation/imbalance deeper into my system to later come out in another way, as she discusses in her dissertation.) I started having tiny improvements around that time, though Matia said the meds just don't work that quickly, but oftentimes in extreme circumstances the meds' psychological effects can actually allow her treatment to work better. Looking back on those months now, though, I can see there were some gains (and even before the meds I was responsive to her treatment). It's just they were just so tiny (given how very bad off I was) that they didn't have much merit to me, plus after the meds I wasn't sure how much to attribute to them.
Finally, toward the end of last year, I started experiencing more (and more sustained) improvements and the pain intensity and duration gradually lessened. Progressing in what felt like inches (just how it had been with the bladder!), I slowly was able to stand and sit more, then work a little, then work more, then drive recently. Today, I am back to a fairly functional existence. That said, this is not a complete success story -- yet. There is still much more work to be done on my legs. They are still weak, I still have mild discomfort, and I'm still limited in what they can handle, i.e. I still can't progress in PT, I can't kneel or squat down or run even a few steps, let alone do any activities I used to do like yoga or bike riding. I'm also a little nervous about what will happen when I start tapering off the meds hopefully soon. And my progress still has ups and downs or plateaus. (Matia says eventually it will "catch," just like it did for the bladder, where it stops wavering and reaches a strong point.) But the most important thing is that, even though it's still so slow, I keep moving forward, and Matia has gotten me back to living more like a functional human being now and out of major pain. What's also amazing is how well overall my bladder stayed strong through some intense herbs for the legs. Sometimes it did & does act up, but Matia's been pretty good about managing it all. Even though I certainly want a full recovery, if I only got to this point, that alone is huge. Where would I be without Matia? No other doctors had much of anything for me, and I truly believe in my heart I'd be worse off if I'd followed their advice.
I'm sorry all this history took so long, but with a year's worth of travails it was hard to condense. The real reason I'm writing is to share some of the biggest lessons I learned through this experience in the hopes it might be helpful to others. I hope it doesn't come off as preachy... that's far from my intent... I just want as much good as possible to come out of the suffering and to help others struggling as I've struggled.
>> You CAN heal. I esp wanted to share the details of my story because a millions times during this ordeal (and I admit even today, now and then) I doubted Matia. It seemed like treatment wasn't working, and in many cases seemingly making things worse or causing new problems (something you'll hear often in others' stories), but a small voice inside me always believed she was the right course for me. As many of you are facing much less extreme circumstances (though no less difficult or painful), it should be a huge example of how if I could heal, you can too. Although many patients progress fairly quickly and without major upset, for others of us, progress can swing back and forth or plateau, and things can get worse before they get better, whether it's your actual condition or die-off effects or both. In the moment, too, things can seem like they're not progressing, but once you get further along you can better see there actually were improvements back then, however small. It's so bizarre that it doesn't make intuitive sense, as holistic and Chinese medicine operate so differently from what we're used to, and because you can't wrap your mind around it, it makes you feel more out of control, which stirs up more anxiety. And aside from the illness, the demands of this treatment can bring up whole new wells of fear and anger and sadness and grieving and doubt. But none of this means you won't heal in the end. As I told a soon-to-be-patient recently, you don't have to believe it will happen for you. I know some posters on here have said, "You really must believe you will get better." Listen, there's much to be said about optimism and hope... they're helpful tools, even likely to promote/quicken healing. But when facing intense-enough suffering, especially for the many of us with chronic illness who have a susceptibility toward fearfulness/anxiety/depression, it just may not be realistic. If you've got that strong optimistic spirit in ya, more power to you, but if not, I say, Just believe it's possible. Because it is. Despite your fears and doubts (which are only stories anyway, not the truth), the evidence bears out that most patients recover in time, believers and doubters alike. And Matia is a genius, no doubt about it.
>> Vulnerability. I want to touch on the vulnerability component, because in my story (and many others'), there's a common theme of IC/other physical ailments striking during/after a very stressful period. For me, I was under tremendous stress at the time, one of the most profound stresses of my life, actually. With having chronic illness, our bodies are more vulnerable to begin with, and then when we subject them to considerable stress, we become weakened even more or sometimes break down. That doesn't mean we caused our illness, but it does provide a partial understanding of how things can happen as well as help us consider changing our circumstances/reactions so we can avoid or minimize future problems.
>> Give yourself a break. Unfortunately, I bullied myself about how I handled this illness because in the prior few years I'd done so much spiritual work and had so much personal growth, how could I become so "weak"? How could I get so fearful? How could I succumb so quickly to depression? So for months I was fighting down most of my feelings, telling myself I have to be "strong" and live my spiritual understandings. Thankfully, with the help of my skilled therapist (I broke down and started doing call-ins with her a few months in), I began seeing how in my attempt to "be spiritual" I was actually being anything but, because I wasn't being real. Trying to be superhuman by suppressing your emotions isn't admirable, it's fraudulent, and frankly, unhealthy. It's no wonder I often felt like I was going to explode. I had a lightbulb moment when I said to the therapist, "I'm so angry I just want to scream!" and she replied, "Well then, why don't you?" So my advice? Scream. Cry. Grieve. Beat pillows or anything that isn't alive or too expensive. It may not heal you but it will help you, clearing that pent-up energy that I learned the hard way needs to be released. I also worked on seeing how much if not all of my response was just a normal, human response to extreme pain and stress. This one's still a toughie for me, though. I'm the world's worst -- I've been told I'm like the horse and the jockey, always whipping myself while running like mad. But for goodness sakes, we need to be kinder to ourselves, and more realistic. Who wouldn't feel terrified, angry, devastated, abandoned or hopeless when sufferings of these magnitudes strike? Maybe a saint. Then again (and I'm not religious, it's just a historical example), even Jesus on the cross purportedly asked God "Why hast thou forsaken me?" When I asked a wise spiritual teacher of mine what courage is, he told me that just bearing it and not giving up is 99% of it. I still don't know if I believe him entirely. But darn it, I'm trying.
>> Anticipatory anxiety. I see more and more how my anticipatory anxiety is useless. Oftentimes, what I'm afraid of never happens, and other things I never anticipated occur. And if what I'm afraid of does happen, I completely underestimate or can't envision how I'll cope or what will come out of it in the end. I also see how in hard times I immediately go to the worst-case scenario, convinced it will happen or vigorously steeling myself for it. But because it's all just stories I'm making up, and I absolutely do not know the future (i.e. what if a blimp lands on me tomorrow? or they find a cure tomorrow?), all that energy is wasted and destructive. So that's where taking it day by day, as much as you can, is a smart move. I'd always heard that refrain but never got what it means for real until this: to wake up in the morning and as best you can focus just on getting through this one day and pretending like there's no tomorrow/future, it's only about getting through today. It's not denying your future fears but kind of like putting them in a box on a high shelf where they're still there but you're not staring at them or going through the box's contents). You don't have to like how today is at all, but just try to accept that it's like this for today and let go into it rather than fighting to control what you can't control anyway. It's hard as hell but when I can occasionally do it for real, or even 50%, life is less overwhelming.
>> Relationships. It's been said many times and it's true. You find out who your true friends are -- or in many cases, aren't -- in times of trouble. Considering that I've always been a big giver, I was shocked that so few people really helped me when push came to shove. Lots of people said things like "Anything I can do to help!" but it was mostly lip service. One friend for whom I'd cooked two weeks' worth of meals when her baby was born, said she could only bring me a salad if she could get it pre-bought. (I was like, "Really? You can't even throw a bag of organic lettuce in a tupperware and chop up some tomatoes or carrots for all of five minutes, just one time?") She never did bring me a salad, or call again for months for that matter. It's so easy to focus on or get consumed by the hurts of those who disappoint us... the betrayal, the sadness, the seeming unfairness of it all, i.e. "I did so much for them, I was there for them, how could they drop me in my greatest time of need?" It's hard to let go of that. But I realized that at a certain point, after processing the natural anger and hurt, the lingering resentment was eating me up, while my friends happily, ignorantly carried on their lives. I was forgetting one of my favorite quotes, by Nelson Mandela, that resentment is like drinking poison and thinking it will kill your enemies. Also, I saw that I was lucky in a way. I saw their true colors. I want friends who are true friends, and better for me to find out sooner than later. Further, I realized that I didn't really know what their reasons were, that I was making assumptions. Maybe for some, my illness scared them, or reminded them of their own infallibility/mortality .... Or my illness and level of pain and lack of answers made them uncomfortable, and they didn't know what to say or how to be helpful. (I had to open my heart to the fact that talking to someone who's depressed can be difficult as it is; talking to someone who's suffering tremendously and a little cuckoo is hard for even a mental health professional.) ... Or they were so overwhelmed with their own lives they really couldn't do much for me. (I admit, this was hard to swallow, esp for those who had two nannies and a housekeeper, but you know, maybe given the life they'd lived, their level of overwhelmed was different than my level.) I also saw how I had ignored or dismissed the ways people did attempt to reach out or care, judging it only through my filter of what is a proper friendship. Moreover, perhaps there were past times when I could have been a better friend to them, things that I was blind to. My resentment had become pretty self-righteous. Although I didn't set out to orchestrate it, it made me feel more worthy (with their lousy behavior coming at a time I felt so powerless and worthless), as in 'At least I'm a much better person than they,' which is more evidence of my lack of self worth than their lack of friendship. Though I admit my resentment can still get triggered now and then, what helped me shift my attitude was going to gratitude, turning my focus to the few who truly were there for me. Yes, there were only a handful, and only one who truly helped me out, but how lucky was I to have even one person willing to step up and help? Some people have none at all. Also, a newer circle of people whom I hadn't known too well before were really there to support me emotionally once I came back to my house and tried connecting with them again. As a result, I became closer with them and have now forged deep friendships with several. Now, losing my old friends feels far less important, and it was actually a blessing in disguise because I share much more in common and values with this new group anyway, but during the worst times when things were more raw, any time I could focus on the love or hug or small trinket a new friend brought me rather than the disappointment of an old friend, I was much better off. So I'm learning that where we put our focus plays a huge role in our attitude and well-being, and maybe even our healing. If you focus on what's lacking (an all-time favorite of mine), you'll never be wanting for examples. But if you focus on what's right, on what you do have, that list may be much shorter (at least at first), but you'll be far happier.
>> The Ways We Do/Don't Connect. Going through this experience finally helped me understand why some patients for whatever reason don't post or stop posting. Before all this, I was a frequent poster and reader of the blog, and I couldn't get over how people who were sick wouldn't want this treasured resource, or how people who had recovered would leave and not help others. But when this struck, I was in such a dark place that I just wasn't up to communicating with people, and when I tried it actually felt worse and wasn't helpful. Plus, no patient had been through anything like my situation, so I couldn't "compare stories" as I was used to with the bladder. (And the few patients who responded to an early post of mine asking if anyone had problems after an injury reported they were still struggling after many months, which only scared me more.) Sometimes, talking about things is helpful. But other times, it just may not be right, or the right time, or the right forum... and for some people it may never be their desired way. Also, regarding the many patients who drop off once they get better: as much as it's hard for those still fighting, I do have more understanding for the recovered patients' perspective. Yes, it'd be so helpful to hear more from them and have their support, but for goodness sakes, IC took over their lives often for years/decades! Now they're finally FREE. Maybe they want to stop living in this world and start living their lives. Maybe even going onto the site is too hard, brings up too many memories of what they understandably just want to forget. There's also the consideration that after so many months/years out of work and the expenses of treatment, many (like me now) are having to work hard/long hours and can't devote the time to the site we once could. All I'm saying is this experience increased my non-judgmentalness more... I respect that everyone has their own perspective, feelings and way, even if I can't understand it now or ever.
>> Dependency. During my incapacitation, I was so angry about being so dependent. I hated what I considered being a burden on others. But, for one thing, the word "burden" was my perception, not reality. Moreover, it was an assumption I made about how others felt. Who knows what they thought? And the truth is, luckily for me, most seemed grateful to help, and one friend even shared, "Please! You're always the one helping other people, I'm glad I finally have a chance to help you." Another lesson I learned from all this is that with dependency comes great humility. Sure, I wouldn't sign up for this experience to gain more humility!, but seeing as it happened anyway, I'm grateful for the lesson. Sitting back and having others take care of you is hard, especially those who were more givers (like me) than receivers. Before falling ill, I was always someone focused on giving and had done lots of volunteer work, but in this experience, I realized I wasn't comfortable in (or fully educated on) the receiving role. There are many reasons why receiving is an equally important ability, but also, to really be a good giver, I learned that you need to know how to receive and put yourself in the shoes of that receiver. Giving can precariously teeter toward (or have elements of) pity or ego-inflation, no matter how sincere the giver. Also, and this was a big light bulb moment for me, my receiving allowed others to give, which makes receiving equally powerful. (And technically, giving people the opportunity to give is in itself a form of giving.) With the help of my great therapist, I also delved into how my feelings of being a burden were connected with my childhood feelings of unworthiness and being told in one way or another how unwanted or burdensome I was just for existing. So I had been mingling the past with the present, feeling myself to be a burden because of past feelings rather than any present evidence. Once I saw all of this, it allowed me to accept help more easily and graciously, which reduced my self-induced suffering and guilt over dependency.
>> Illumination. In hindsight, health crises tend to happen during/after a point where we need change in our lives, where something really isn't working, or where we're perhaps not taking care of ourselves. It's like the illness pops up to illuminate this and make us change our ways. I wish this illumination came before illness had to strike, but I guess sometimes it takes a megaphone to get through, or when we're in the thick of things it's too hard to see, or sometimes all the dots don't get connected until long after. I am absolutely no expert to speak more on this, and I am not insinuating that these awful things happen "for a reason" per se. No matter what your religious persuasion, none of us really knows the "why" of things. Plus, I'm not all high and mighty now; I know if things took a turn for the worse tomorrow, I'd be begging for mercy over illumination. But if we must endure such suffering, finding ways in which our (and others') lives can be bettered as a result of it means that at least some light can come out of the darkness.
Blessings of love & healing to you all.
Amazing Story!
Thank you for taking the time to share your amazing story with us. We can all use more hope :o)
It's good to hear your story
Hello ICHOPE,
I'm the "POOF - they're gone" person - Kind of the blog hog lately. Thank you so much for sharing - you've struck on so much of what I feel. While I don't wish anxiety, depression and desperation on anyone, you've made me feel less alone. I too know what it's like dealing with things that don't fall into the conventional IC category - mine being breast cancer three times in a row - every five years. I darkly call it my five year plan. I am now, once again, cancer free - it's been a year since I ended my two year regimine of chemo - my celebration of that seemed to be the onset of IC.
While it's true that Dr. B's treatment has gotten the bladder problems nearly under control, the anxiety and depression have increased ten fold. There have been so many extreme things that my body has done in response to this treatment that has me terrified, and my oncologists concerned. Thus, I have had more tests "just to make sure", than I ever had before. The psychological damage to this is overwhelming. My mind has done me more damage than any illness ever has.
Blessings of love & healing to you to.
A Question for IC Hope
You wrote that you were on Elavil (something that I had years ago) I've recently gotten off of a drug called Buspar - it seemed to be making things worse for me. Anyway, Dr. B is trying to control my anxiety with RP - which is taking the edge off a bit. However, there have been many times that I've felt like I can't take it much longer. I guess I'm wondering if you tried herbs to help mentally? I'm guessing that they just didn't cut it for you?
Thanks
IC-Hope
All I can say is your story, and your insight was something I really really needed to read today. Thank you so much for taking the time to write it. I appreciate it so much. So much of what you said hit home with me. And what a journey you have been on!
I just emailed Matia this morning. I told her I was so depressed and desperate, sick of IC ruling my life. I am approaching a year in treatment this Saturday, also my birthday. IC is still very painful, and dibilitating to me. I had asked Matia about a side treatment yesterday, and if it was OK with her if I tried it, and she said she would caution me strongly against it.
It made me so angry. I wanted to say " Then help me get out of this horrible pain!!!" But instead I just told her I was disapointed I have not had more progress. She wrote back and said the same thing she has said over and over... " There is no magic pill. Treatment takes time, some people get better in a year, some people it takes much longer." She encouraged me to focus on the little things that have gotten better. SO I will continue to try and do just that. Because when I look over this last year, there ARE little improvements, a lot of them.
Thanks again. I have been discouraged on this site, of how many people who used to be here to help, are gone. But your attitude on that is a good one, and I will try and learn from it.
Hopeful
Hello,
I'm sorry that you're having such a rough time of it. Did giving up the cofee help at all with the anxiety? I don't really think that it did with me. However, I'm going to lay off of it for awhile longer.
Please be good to yourself- I'm going to try the same thing for myself
IC-Hope
What an incredible post. I cannot begin to imagine what you have been through. I can relate to the lessons you have learned during treatment, but doubt that I could have written such a coherent and insightful message. I too fall into the category of people who stopped posting, but my reason is a little different. I've been in treatment with Matia for quite a few years, and over the years I've found that people who frequent the site are often in the beginning of treatment or considering starting treatment. I don't think you want to read about the person who was in treatment forever, even those of you that are a year or 2 along probably don't want to think they might end up like me. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually doing fantastic, but the root of my illness is so deep in my body. The bladder issues I have now are more of a nuisance than anything else. I continue to work through die off symptoms and occasionally have some symptoms that freak me out. But I've been at this long enough that I actually appreciate these weird symptoms as they are a clue that my body is continuing to heal itself. I used to have so many symptoms I couldn't possibly cover them all in my 30 minute phone appointment, now I'm down to 4. This illness has caused me to go down a path I never would have discovered otherwise. In the beginning the path was very difficult and it was hard for me to make it through each day. But now that I have been walking for so long the path has become much easier and I am able to see the beauty that surrounds me each day.
answers...
Denise -- Cancer 3x, holy cow, you are a warrior. Yes, she tried a few herbs for the anxiety but they did nothing. Eventually she told me if you've got a major, acute anxiety/depression like mine was, the meds (if it's something like Elavil) are usually much more helpful & less offsetting to treatment than herbs can be (but that may not apply to all cases, esp for those w/ gastro issues where it's too problematic I believe). That said, she leaves it to the absolute last resort b/c you want to avoid them if at all possible - gut effects, side effects, bladder effects. Problem is, she / I put it off too long, creating more needless suffering. I say "she / I" because I can't recall exactly how much was me trying to put it off, and how much was her strongly encouraging me not to for a long time. At the point where I was losing my mind and telling my family things like "I just can't live like this anymore," my family was extremely concerned and unhappy with Matia as a health practitioner saying "don't do meds" But maybe I also wasn't strong enough in communicating to her how dire things were so she thought I could hold out longer. I was waiting for her to say it first, to decide the meds for me so I wouldn't have to (which she did eventually after I sent my umpteenth "I really can't handle this" email). B/c it was a gut-wrenching decision: it had the potential to make my legs & bladder even worse, to undo the progress she'd made, plus there was no way to know how my body would respond.... and the first month on it I thought I'd made the biggest mistake b/c I had major reactions and issues.
Hopeful -- I'm sorry to hear how intensely you're still suffering. I know how incredibly frustrating it is ... she's saying "hang in there" but you feel stretched to your limit like you can't take another day, and it feels cold/unfeeling even though of course Matia's anything but, and you don't know how much longer to give her to see results when you can't try anything else. (If you truly feel it is too much, perhaps ask her about other options. I'm not pushing meds AT ALL but maybe there's something else yet unexplored that could help.) But if you're seeing improvements, however small, then in the very least you know something is working on the inside. You might want to put them up where you'll see them daily -- I do this with my list of "accomplishments". Then it's a big deal when I get to add one. And it shifts your focus to the more positive side.
Carole -- This is a terrific point, that long-time patients fear their posting will scare off new patients. This is an issue for me, too. And I know when I first started I was terrified to read some posts of people in treatment 2, 3, 4, 5+ years (though Matia claims those on this site are a small section of her patient population). And I didn't know what to make of those who said they'd been in 2 years and were markedly better but "had a long way to go"... I read that so many times, even in the Success Stories it seemed. I would even put myself in that category now -- much better but still a long way to go to full recovery, yet I hesitate to post something like that b/c I know how much it scared me early on. I wish there was a solution for both sides -- so new patients can get the support they need without being unduly scared off, but long-term patients can feel free to fully share & get the support they need without worry of scaring others.
IC-Hope
Thank you for sharing this truly amazing story and being so open. It must be so hard to express how you feel and what you have been through but I suppose one of the results of this treatment is that one can express themselves more clearly. I am glad you feel way better on the way of believing yourself and Matia, and of course your gut. Its so interesting to see how everyone takes their lessons through different ways, its like being examined via different challanges. How good that you are grateful and started to focus on "positive" rather than lacking things.
I can not compare my circumstances to yours, but as you said everyone has their own pain they can carry and it is not good to compare the pain we have. but I could relate the lessons you had: Having hard time while receiving es when you are giver most of the time; anxiety of the future, thiking the worst cases; to see who your true friends are and noticing there are not many, one or two really who help you , esp when you give A LOT most of the time and you are there for them whenever they need; and considerng yourself spiritual while you are not being real (to read this was so important to me . I think its so hard to be real but this will help me to try more); feeling less worth during childhood, etc...I couldn't agree more on the lessons you took and it is good to read it from another person's perspective, really.
Peace
Thank you
For your words of encouragement IC-Hope. I do appreciate them... I certainly do need to have more reminders around me of the small things that have gotten better. Your story really inspired me. I can not imagine how hard that all was.
Denise- I have emailed you several times?? Did you not get them? I sent one to the "worker" one, but it sent it back... so I came on here and sent you an email using your email on here...
Anyway... I started coffee again after a week, and the day of my app with Matia. She told me she did not want me to stop it, and I was not over doing it having 14 oz in the morning. More then that though, I was going down hill really bad within the week. I felt stagnant in my intestines and was getting SO depressed. Now I know this is not all due to the coffee, but a big part of it. My daughter was also really sick, and I had to have something help me through that hard time. I now make my coffee weaker, and that seems to help with the "calmness". I wish you the best on seeing if it might help you in anyway keeping it out. I do recommend talking to Matia. I finally gave up, as I have asked her over and over if I should stop it, and she has always said no. I have a hard time trusting her judgment at times! But I am trying to put my health in her hands, as far as following what she says.
Does E-mail work from this site?
Hi Hopeful - I've never gotten any of your E-mails. I've also tried to contract other people throught this site with no luck. I don't know why your e-mail got returned - I've gotten some from other people - It's greatworker1@hotmail.com.
I did talk today with Matia about my ditching the coffee. She told me that about 2% of patients can't handle regular coffee, or decaf for that matter. Since I don't have any problems with my intestines not working (we all know that could change in a heart beat) We're going to see if this helps with my anxiety. Funny, I gave up sugar with almost no problem, but I could kill for a cup of coffee. Now, I've been reduces to white tea - what the heck is white tea? No need to answer, I'm sure I'll find some.
Hi IC Hopeful - thank you for responding with info on herbs vs conventional anxieyt/depression medication. There have been several times that I'm a very small step away from not being able to handle it any more. In the beginning I don't think Dr. realized that I wasn't exagerating. The thing is - I've tried SO much - with horrible effects. At the moment she and I agreed to use both herbs and a very low dose of Busparine - something that I handle well in small doses, just went a bit crazy when they upped it so much. I'm crossing my fingers that it'll work for me - Oh, that and exersise! It truly is my saving grace.
Dear Carol,Thanks for writing - I too have come to the realization that my bladder is only a small part of this illness. It was really nice to feel the improvement in your words - even though it hasn't been a quick fix. While I haven't been doing this for a year, it has dawned on me that I'm going to be here for awhile - it's nice to hear from someone who's accepted that with what sounds like grace.
Hi Selda - it's nice to hear from you again. Has your emotional roller coaster gotten better? I hope so.
Take Care all
Denise and Hopeful
Denise: I have been aiming to write you to thank for the audio link. I got couple of them and since then I have been listening. I am SOOOOO grateful that you shared the link. I would be happy to learn if there is more to reduce the mental pain. Espceially those audios related to brain power, etc are very effective when I work. Its like I am trance in front of the computer, I love it. Lately, my concentration is a bit down again though, Matia increased Bifido from 1 dose to 2 and it really changes:s
In the meantime, I do EFT which helps me clear the stuff coming to the surface. I had a lot of self-judgement ,self-criticism going on, and still indeed, and both the audios and EFT helped me reduce the mental pain. I am way more emotional than ever. I did not even know I could go this deep in me and in fact I did not know myself at all, I must say. Since couple of weeks I try to embrace every thought and feeling as they are and try to show whatever comes to surface rather than supressing them which help. Of course there is the question "why" is this, "why is that"..Sometimes it helps sometimes it does not. but I could say, I am less harsh on mysel and feel more worthy, this is part of the process I am on currently. I started to love myself more than ever, even though I get angry with my body when I am anxious--then I apologize:) Its like I am talking to different parts of me whenever I have an issue.
Denise and Hopeful, as for the coffee. When I started to work with Matia, I was not a huge fan of coffee but used to drink decaf coffee as it was the only drink I could have according to the my previous treatment (I know it is weird)..so after Matia, I stopped coffee, she told me I could only drink black tea..I tried but after 2 years of not drinking black tea, it was kind of weird and it was boring to drink only black tea. So, once in a while(once a week) I was drinking coffee or getting capucino even though I knew it was bad for me, and indeed it never felt good when I drank, I was always feeling anxious after coffee. So, when I started to do EFT, I tried EFT on coffee and since then I don't drink coffee--I mean I dont really desire. Really once in a while (once a month or every other month) I take a capucino(I loved that so much years ago) but I guess that is OK compared to once a day. So, if you do EFT I would recommend trying it. It worked for me.
Indeed, I tried it for alcohol as well. It was hard for me not to drink when I started this treatment with Matia. I go out with friends (well, I am kind of in hermid mode but I still go out with them once a week or so) and they all drink, I used to drink as well. Before Matia, (again according to the previous treatment) I tried to give up alcohol and I was sooo strict, I did not drink for months and suddenly I was angry with not seeing any good results plus feeling so limited while with friends used to make me start drinking again. So when I told Matia, she told me to be strong and try not to drink but if I do really want I could go with X....but then whenever I drank X, I was getting drunk more easily and when I did not drink I would not enjoy my time when I am with friends. I would say that I was not really ready to give up alcohol even though it was really bad for me. So again after months, I tried EFT on it, it took more than coffee to see the results but it really helped. I go out with friends and have fun, whereas I used to think I could not enjoy my time or felt restricted before EFT. It is really interesting, this EFT thing, but it does work for me. You should talk to Matia before you want to try though. It wasn't too much on my body so I gave a try and I still do it anytime for anything I feel stuck, angry, anxious, helpless,etc..
Each of us know our bodies more than anyone else, and being almost 11 month on the treatment I could say "one step at a time" works better rather than being very pushy on ourselves and remembering the "what is my purpose". Same thing happened with exercise, I was so pushy on myself , I used to exercise a lot in the past and whenever I had this health issue I had to stop for a while, and having put a lot of weight kind of restricted me. I was angry myself, with my body..but I see now that I did not listen my body. Even though I was so much in pain (very very very burning legs, knee pain esp) I used to run a lot, almost 20 miles a week. but then I stopped because I was very greedy, it was way too much for my body esp in the beginning of the treatment. And look at now, I have no motivation to exercise and a bit fear' what if I get too greedy again and fail again, which upsets me but I could see since one week or so I do yoga at home without being so greedy. I guess, one other lesson I am taking from this situation is not being very stubborn and harsh on my body but paying attention to it. Also, dancing at home is very good when you have motivation.
Oh my..this letter got so long.
Take care all
Peace
Forgot to say - most important!
Forgot to say - most important! - I am humbled by each of your responses. It warms my heart to know I may have helped you feel a little less alone or see something new. I take little credit ... hard knocks aside, I think much of my learning has come from grace itself and the tremendous wisdom of good teachers in different forms & many other 'regular folk' who are teaching without even knowing it.
It wasn't easy to bare my soul in this way but I felt almost a compulsion to do it, a feeling that this needed to be put out there whether I liked it or not. Besides that, this forum needs more positivity and hope, as many have echoed. I'm only glad I could finally be in the position to offer it!
HI Ladies...
Denise... I am sorry you did not receive my emails? That is the email I sent them to? Hmmm... Hang in there with the whole coffee thing. I hope you can find some relief from stopping it if anything? White tea is a very mild tea I think? You should be able to find it at a health food store? I hope you like it!
Selda- I don't really crave coffee too bad... I think I would do OK, if I found a tea I liked. But Matia has told me over and over NOT to stop it and I have not listened : /. My instestines get SO slow and really feel terrible after a week without it (even though I was drinking 14 oz of a hot tea in the morning, when I usually would have had coffee?). So for now on I am listening to what she says about it... It is different for everyone for sure! I just need to trust she knows what she is saying to me as a individual. Even though for others it is different!
Also, thank you for your advice with EFT. It has helped me a lot in the last few months. I have been doing it with a trained professonal. But once you learn it, you can do it by yourself so easliy! Their are some very good books on amazon.com about EFT by the guy who started it all. I like to encorperate my beliefs into it when I do it... as far as my beliefs about God. It really does work. I am glad to hear someone else has found it helpful too. I did ask Matia before I started though, and she said it was OK.
I wish you all the best girls! And again, IC-Hope, thanks for starting this good thread!!!
Tea & coffee
Denise, in the UK black tea with a touch of milk is referred to as white tea. I don't know if that is what Matia meant. Might be called differently in the US.
Hopeful, its good to see your posts again, and I also have a big jug of weak coffee every morning. I find it soothing. I've never asked her about it but I know I just feel better for it. Seeing your post has made me feel less guilty.
EFT - I have been thinking about trying this for sometime but can't justify the cost of seeing a professional. Do you think it is something you can learn yourself?
Hopeful, I see your point.
Hopeful, I see your point. You are right and shall listen/follow Matia says. Hope you will feel less anxious soo. I am glad EFT helps you as well. Sometimes, I really think I am crazy doing this and tapping on my body and believing I am getting better:) but since it helps for whatever reason, I will keep doing it.
Carole. As for EFT, I think you can learn it yourself by watching videos and reading books. Like Hopeful said, there are couple of them you can buy and do at home yourself. Eventually, thats how I started to do. For couple of weeks, I taught myself and practiced at home, later on I just wanted to see how it would be with a practitioner. Currently, I see a practitioner a few times in a month. I noticed practitioner could go deeper in emotional level and help me finding the roots of the problem which usually goes to childhood! To me, it helps talking to someone while doing EFT. If you find a friend that you can do together, that would be great, of course someone you could trust by heart. I can send you an email including the book and CD I got, if you wish. It is very easy to learn even though it seems like a lot of work in the beginning.
Carole..
http://www.eftuniverse.com/
This is a very good website to glean info from. They have a lot of free videos on there too. I would order a book by Gary Craig if you can. You can most certainly do it on your own. There are a few guidlines however, that makes it much more effective.