Does anyone know the modifications for vegans?

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I am vegan and am wondering what the modifications are. Also is it ok to Watson many grains if we tend to struggle with yeast?

Claire's picture
Claire

Hi Carey,
I don't know if you've made an appointment with Matia already, but I remember when I made my initial inquiry, the first thing the office asked me was if I was vegan or vegetarian, and I was told that Matia does not take vegan/veg patients because she has not had success healing those who don't eat meat.  The diet we have to follow is heavily reliant on animal protein, especially in the beginning. You can search the site for other posts by Matia about this issue, and I am pretty sure that is their policy. 
 
I know it is somewhat disheartening (as a former vegetarian, I feel you) to learn that you'll have to change in order to work with Matia.  Depending upon your reasons for your dietary choices, it may make sense for you to eat meat again, but obviously that's an individual decision. 
 
I have found I feel really amazing eating red meat, as difficult as it was to do at first.  I make sure I get beef and chicken from local, humane producers and live with that choice at this point because I believe that I (personally) need meat to function properly.  Good luck deciding what to do!
 
Best wishes,
Claire

blondy's picture
blondy

Dr B doesn't take vegeterians as far as I know. I don't think we have a chance to recover without healthy meat.

Mimij67's picture
Mimij67

Hi Carey
Glad you posted and hope you will ask more questions and research this site and even call the office to ask them.
It is hard to explain because Chinese Medicine is VERY different than Western Medicine, or even alternative western medicine.
There is of course a HUGE emphasis on vegetables in this diet, even eating them for breakfast and in proper combination with protein and starch.
She has worked with hundreds of patients, and many go on to lead normal lives again, avoiding sugar and alcohol. When you are done with treatment, I imagine you could return to a mostly vegan diet, with maybe some fish or chicken and minimal if any read meat. In her experience of working with so many IC patients, she has found that actually the vegan and vegetarian diets push people into their IC status. I am not sure if this is because the body becomes over-alkalinized, or just that the right nutrients for a body out of balance can't be obtained without some animal protien.
This also is NOT specific to her approach. Many gut healing protocols such as GAPS, Selective Carbohydrate Diet, and the work of the Westin A. Price Foundation all espouse the importance of eating meat to reverse gut diseases and many auto-immune conditions. This includes the Paleo Diet and the Paleo Immune diet, and MANY others.
You will find many stories of people that have "healed" their IC through raw diets, and other highly alkaline diets. But in Dr. Brizman's experience, this will simply mask the symptoms of IC, and not address the root cause of IC which is severely altered gut microflora, Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth-SIBO (This can be worsened unknowingly in a vegan/veg diet), and leaky gut. So even though the symptoms are reduced or in some cases eliminated, the other branches of the IC tree still remain, and people can end up driving the IC deeper into the body and have symptoms that are even harder to treat and include chronic tinitus and auto-immune symptoms such as arthritis, and the ic could return easily.
In Dr. Brizaman's approach, she is trying to rebalance all of your organ systems again so that all of your body's tissues are healthy. Red meat helps re-build tissues in the body that have been depleated through the history of your dis-ease progression that led to IC.
I strongly recommend you read her dissertation available at bomamed.com, because she understands IC like no other practitioner that I have come across and I have been doing a ton of reasearch on this.
Also, soy is a HUGE IC trigger, and almonds, oats and buckwheat and other foods can cause a lot of inflammation if eaten too early in treatment. Dr. Brizman has a careful way to re-introduce foods that does not flare the immune system and cause bladder pain. I hope you consider working with her. You will get a lot of support here.
 

If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.

Divaswearred's picture
Divaswearred

Mimi, thanks again! Your just answered my questions about how IC can go deeper. I would love to get an idea of how this works...it feels very unknown still at this point.
 
with major gratitude,
carey

Mimij67's picture
Mimij67

Carey,
Order her dissertation. Read the forum. Do searches. And read her blog posts dating back to 2008. You will learn a lot. If you want to post your health history and development of IC you may see some similarities (and differences) with others in treatment here.
You will meeet with Dr. Boaz Brizman and go over your entire health history. You will follow the diet listed here and take herbs and probiotics and look at all of your other daily lifestyle exposures. It is lifechanging for the better. And of course, you will have your own wisdom to add to the group!

If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.

Divaswearred's picture
Divaswearred

We meet with boaz or Mitia? I will order the dissertation for sure! Thank you so much! I just wonder how it is different from all that I am already doing...following Amrit Willis, Etc.

Claire's picture
Claire

I followed Amrit Willis's advice for about 2 years before I began working with Matia.  While I did see some improvement, I have seen MUCH more with Matia's protocol.  Clearly, some people can feel better when alkalizing but I believe that Matia is right that over-alkalizing is also imbalanced and can lead to other issues.  I still check my pee PH sometimes, and it is always neutral or a bit alkaline even though I eat a varied diet that is not overly alkaline.
 
I noticed when I started eating animal protein with every meal, my bladder did a lot better.  I know Amrit says not to mix high-protein and high-starch, and fruit should always be alone, but I have really experienced pain from those combinations. 
 
The biggest change I would suggest is ditching extra virgin olive oil until you stabilize. I also ate lots of winter squash on Willis's diet (to the point where I was rather orange), and I think it was too much sugar.  The coconut is too intense as well in my experience. 
 
OH, and Matia writes about Amrit in her thesis, so you'll probably find that interesting too. 

Mariposa's picture
Mariposa

Hi Carey,
 
I was a vegetarian for 20 years before starting treatment and haven't found it very difficult to stick to the diet just because I feel so much better than I did before!
Just thought I'd share in case that was a determining factor for you.
Love
Han

Mimij67's picture
Mimij67

Carey, you would have to ask Dr. Boaz Brizman how he would compare this approach to what is outlined in Amrit Willis' book.  I touched on this in my earlier post and you can search Dr. Matia Brizman's old blog posts about alkaline issues. Amrit put her IC in remission through a powerfully alkalinizing diet. This is not ideal from a Chinese Medicine perspective. In Chinese medicine, from what I understand, you want to encourage the body to return to and maintain its proper PH. This is not achieved and maintainted through drinking alkaline water and eating alkaline foods or doing powerful cleanses that might worsen the IC. IC comes on very slowly for most (except often there is a precipitating factor such as birth control or antibiotics that push people into being symptomatic) and it needs to be healed slowly.  Sorry I can't explain more, but you will learn as you read the dissertation, and as you come to fully understand your health history and what led you personally to IC. You will learn a ton about yourself and what you can do positively moving forward to improve and maintain your health.
Maybe others can explain this better.

If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.