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Hi everyone,
Even though i have been doing well since the baby was born five months ago, i do still have lingering symptoms and recently some old symptoms returned (that i didn't have for months and months). I started to think about why. Why am i not completely balanced yet? Is it pizza dough containing yeast once a week? Too many agave treats? The fact that i added gluten back in?
Through reading this forum (thanks for the informative posts Mimi), and Dr. B's posts, i have recently realised that i have been eating too much carbs, since i started treatment about two years ago. Dr. B said during my last appointment, that eating too much carbs can definitly hold you back. As the unused carbs feed overgrowth.
For example, I would have about 100grams of brown rice (dried, before it's cooked) with an evening meal. Or two or three potatoes. Or 1 cup of pasta (again before it's cooked). So now i realize that this is too much. Also, i would for example have made butternut squash soup, and have a slice of gluten free bread with it. Now i realize there is no need for the slice of bread. Dr. B didn't want to go into weight/ measurements, but suggested 20% carbs of total meal.
How much do you all eat compared to what i have described above?
And now that I cut down on carbs, should i expect to experience some die off symptoms? I have been feeling anxious in the evening for the past three days. Since cutting down on carbs actually. So it has made me wonder.
Any thoughts / advice appreciated!
C
Hi C
Hi C
I wonder does Dr. Brizman say you might have your yeast checked? I know she doesn't do testing very often but wonder about this (for myself too!) What are your symptoms? Are they bladder? or other signs of yeast?
She told me to skip carbs at dinner about 4 months ago. I am actually a tiny bit frustrated about this, as I think my yeast has been bad for a long time, and I was follwing the regular guidelines on this website. I wish she had told me to back off on them a while ago. I was grumbly about skipping evening carbs at first, because it is a big shift, but then I started making some yummy herb sauces, or half an avocodo, spinkle of cheese, garlic butter, or roasted red pepper, something to add a little specialness to the evening meal and that really helps. I don't mind it now, although I still miss the carbs sometimes. I have a little bit of carbs with breakfast OR lunch, not usually both. I will have a slice of yeast free brown rice bread at breakfast, or maybe a slice of spelt bread, OR I will have a rice cake with lunch.Or 2-3 Suzie's Thin Cakes. If I skip this little bit of carb I get a headache. Geeze, you'd think I would have lost a little weight, but no. Well, maybe a pound. If I am at a restaurant I might have a few bites of potatoes.
I am also on SF. Is she giving you something for the yeast? Definitely cut them at dinner. Our energy requirements are less in the evening, and the yeast do not need the extra food. I would not be able to tell you about die off, as I imagine it would depend on your protocol. Could the anxiety be just from having to give up comforting food??? It was anxiety provoking for me!!
And honestly I hate to be black and white here, but if you still have yeast (and I don't know that you do, but you did say she ws speaking about overgrowth) then by all means, steer clear of the pizza or bread with yeast until you are well out of the woods. I dont see the point in eating commercial yeast once a month if it might possibly set me back. You went so long without it, don't dabble now. Not worth it IMO! I sometimes think wouldn't it be nice to eat the crap everyone else is eating, and then I think, what is the point! I like the other way of eating, and the crap would put me at risk.
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
At the moment I am not
At the moment I am not getting anything for the yeast. When with the dr in London I was on so much (natural) stuff for it, that dr b felt it was too harsh. Now we try create balance through diet and probiotics (natren no. 1,2,3 twice daily). And 3 RP twice daily to deal with inflammation. My main problem is urethra irritation after voiding. Nausea with full bladder. I get occasional vaginal itching, this used to be all day, every day. I always felt when vaginal symptoms increased, so did my bladder symptoms. I don't feel the need to get tested, it was done when I first got ic. Now I try look at symptoms, dr b prefers to work that way. And it saves expensive testing that I had to do with the dr in London.
I don't feel anxious about cutting down on carbs, I'm going half of what I used to eat and will decrease more if necessary.
Good idea about adding roasted peppers etc to add something to meals.
I struggled with carbs a lot
I struggled with carbs a lot in the beginning of treatment, and eventually cut them out completely for 8 months to kind of "reset" my system, so to speak. Now, I try to only have bread a few days a week. One thought I will share is that when I have carbs now, I make sure they are either starchy vegetables (like squash), beans, or whole grains (like quinoa, amaranth, teff). I avoid rice because I don't think my body likes it and Dr. M once told me brown rice can be very drying (I used to be very constipated when eating it). I have noticed, in regards to whole grains vs processed grains like bread or pasta, that I feel worlds better when I stay away from the processed stuff. Even if it is organic, wonderfully made, etc. I have found a correlation between processed starches and inflammation for my body. I also get constipated when eating bread but have no problem when eating amaranth, quinoa, etc. Everyone is different, but maybe give it a thought. See how you feel on whole grains and starchy veggies vs processed grains and rice.
I always forget about Quinioa
I always forget about Quinioa. My diet is still still limited but i did try Quinioa a longwhile ago and I think I was ok. I am so afraid to add food and it very difficult if not impossible to cut more carbs if you're not adding some other stuff- like squash, sweet potatoes. etc. If I cut carbs right now, I would absolutely lose weight and I could prob stand to lose about 5lb before looking too thin for me. Sometimes, this feels so overwhelming- all the myriad variations of things that affect us. I wanted to remind people though to check with your Dr B before abruptly cutting all or most carbs. I think they are easy to overeat but she has told me before that I need the energy, I am sure that goes for many people.
This is such an interesting
This is such an interesting thread! Thanks all!
Murphy, After a while on no carbs did you feel better? I know that Dr. B says dont cut them out completely, but then the more I look into this, the more I realize that when you cut out carbs, your body needs about a month to essentially learn how to burn FAT for energy, instead of SUGAR (for us, glucose). So eventually, as LONG as you don't give the body too much protien (because then it is smart and can convert too much of THAT into sugar also, LOL) then your body will be a fat burner, which helps keep your blood sugar more stable which for most has some good benefits. There are the no carb ketogenic folks, and then there is the guy Paul Jimenet who wrote the Perfect Health Diet and he says 200 calories from carbs is enought to be somewhat ketogenic. OF COURSE I am not recommending any of this to patients here without discussing wiht Dr. Brizman. It sounds like for most it is ok to stick with 20-25% carbs and consider for some to not have them with dinner.
I am going to get some quinoa because I think rice constipates me. My go-to carb is a brown rice cake because I am LAZY about this and they taste good. But I don't think they are good for me. She has asked me to try quinoa which is not that appealing but I think I will!!
Murphy, do you bake with whole grain teff or amaranth? Do you bake at all?
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Murphy, you said you needed
Murphy, you said you needed to re-set your body by cutting carbs? What did you mean?
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Hi everyone! I have found
Hi everyone! I have found that carbs and the management of them are very important in my healing. For me personally, I had to remove rice and whole grains, and I was then able to add in butternut squash, beets, peas, red lentils, and navy beans as my starches. I cannot eat nightshades or dairy as well. I have to be careful with my starches and only eat 1/4 c per meal...that seems to keep my body stable. I used to skip a starch at night, but now that I am on these starches I can have 1/4 c a night with no problems. I have to be careful with fruit as well, so I don't have any fruit at night, and I only have a few slices of apple and pecan butter with my tea time. It's a bit of a balance beam, but I think managing carbs for me has been very important. In the beginning of treatment I ate rice cakes, rice bread, and rice pasta but I wouldn't eat those now. I think I was more in survival mode in the beginning so I needed those things, which has now evolved into what are the foods I need to live on to keep my body calm and stable. I also need to switch up my carbs every meal, this really helps me as well. I hope I have been of help. :)
Thank you Mrs. A! I will be
Thank you Mrs. A! I will be experimenting with other starchy veggies and beans and maybe quinoa.
Do you soak your beans and then cook them, and avoid the canned ones?
Did you go very low carb FIRST before adding in the starchy veggies? I am just trying to figure out if I would feel ok on a carb free diet for a while (I know it takes time to adjust to this....)
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Sorry for the delay. Have
Sorry for the delay. Have been moving and without internet for awhile. I feel pretty cut off!
Yes, after awhile on no carbs I DID feel better. It became easier to regulate my eating, and I think the excess carbs were feeding an imbalance which was causing me to binge. I also had a lot of emotional stuff going on, and so without the convenience of carbs (which is what I loved to binge on), I had to do something more productive with my emotions instead of eating them. However, I did have to work really hard to make sure I got enough starchy veggies/beans beause if not I was a totally exhausted zombie. That was tough, and inconvenient, so I was happy to go back to eating some carbs.
Also, I agree with you about rice cakes. THe more I thought about it, the more I realized those things are pretty nutrionally devoid. The only plus is the convenience. Everyone is different, but I personally never felt great while eating them. Which is a shame because they are so satisfyingly crunchy.
I love to eat quinoa for breakfast (like you might oatmeal). Quinoa is great, I think, because it can be sweet or savory. Meaning you can put fruit and milk in it in the morning, or mix it with veggies at night. So versatile!
I do bake with teff and amaranth, as well as buckwheat. You can mill your own flours from the whoel grains (time consuming) or just use a good quality flour. I also cook with black beans (like in brownies). And yes, I bake a lot. For sweetener, when I don't want to use agave, I use applesauce and yams in muffins. Or banana (but that has a distinct taste).
Mrs a- You amaze me with the
Mrs a- You amaze me with the setailed way you were able to add/take away these foods. I feel like somehow this is too overwhelming for me. Did you do this with Matia's guidance or own your own/ I am still on a very limited list 3 diet (not really even list 3 but I do have yogurt and some nuts) because she keeps saying to go slow with adding things but that ends up being actually glacial because I am never stable enough for long to really be able to tell. I have started to just add things and assume that if I was going to have a reaction, it would be hopefully more obvious than my usual worsening. I feel like I need to break through some kind of mental barrier that keeps me from adding foods. I have never been really able to see a clear reaction- well, maybe a few times but generally I have been unsure all along from the start.
Mimi, yes I do soak my beans.
Mimi, yes I do soak my beans. But I didn't at first per Dr. B's counsel. I tried green lentils, that didn't work. So then I tried red lentils, and it worked perfect, but also soaked. I don't do any beans canned. I have never gone no carbs, but rather specific carbs that are easier to digest and just a little at each meal. For me too, I need everything sauteed or cooked at this point, even my nuts. I try to do my stronger carbs in the morning for energy, and then end my day with a small beet, for example. My body really responds well when I have a beet in my day!
Deir, I do pray a lot! :) And I try to watch my body's reaction to foods. Yes, I am following Matia's guidance, but I do a lot of my own research. When I add a food in, I watch for pains in my arm or under my rib cage (sign my body doesn't like this), my eyes, my tongue and thirst, scalp (I get intermittent sores on
my head), bladder, and especially how my intestines are responding. I often think of the quote by Hippocrates...Let food be thy medicine, let medicine be thy food. I really do try to do that.
Ok- you are the queen of this
Ok- you are the queen of this! I can't even blame it on my kids because I know you have a 4 year old too but man- i just don't think I have the skills to perceive such minor changes!
Ha ha! I guess I have been
Ha ha! I guess I have been ill so long and studying the
same body for so long that I notice all the little things more than I used to. But I look at them as clues as to what is going on inside and how I am improving. My little girl is five now and such a comfort to me. :)
Sorry, Mrs. A did you mean
Sorry, Mrs. A did you mean that Dr. M does not want us to soak beans overnight at first? How did you know when it was ok??
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Yes, at first she did not
Yes, at first she did not want me to soak the beans. So definitely run it by her first. Then she told me I could handle them being soaked, so I do that all the time now.
Hi everyone,
Hi everyone,
Yes this is an interesting post. I thought that quinoa was considered a protein? It contains all 9 amino acids and is considered a complete protein (like meat is complete protein, but all other protein sources are not complete and contain only some of the amino acids). Well this is what i remember from my earlier research! Correct me if im wrong :-)
I have been having quinoa for lunch lately and love it. I add hummus to the quinoa to give it flavour. Then i add in peppers (raw or cooked, or i made a mixture of panfried courgette, onion and peppers). Then i add in some raw tomato and either spinach or kale. I also add some cheese, i have done both mozarella and haloumi.
A really filling lunch!
I have always been having loads of brown rice pasta, or brown rice or potato with my evening meal. So now i realize that i have to eat way less of this, so for now having very small portions instead of normal size portions is a step forward for me.
And for lunch i will focus on protein and veg (like my quinoa lunch) with starchy veg (eg. butternut squash soup).
Have any of you looked at deliciouslyella.com? I get a lot of inspiration from this site.
C
I would not be able to
I would not be able to perceive small changes / specific foods either. I just realised lately that, i need to move forward more, i still get 'flares', and started thinking; what could be the cause? Then when i read how ppl here are particular about carbs, i thought 'maybe i need to be more careful with them'.
So i look at generally, because i don't feel a direct reaction to food. Actually, when i have cheated and have had sugar, i felt great! In some cases felt worse a few days after, but not always.
C
CO foods don't really flare
CO foods don't really flare me ever either. I can handle spices. I just made a homemade caesar dressing OMG so good. It had mustard powder and lemon and raw garlic in it and it was no problem for me! (although I am going to think about what Mrs A said about that rib cage pain bc I do get rib twinges sometimes which I thought were random) I am stuck on list 3 because of my bloating. I am bloated 2/3 of the day, most days, although lately I have had a little improvment. Crazy but since dropping carbs at dinner I have not lost ANY weight which is annoying as I would love to lose just a few pounds. My body must like this weight for healing.
Humans don't need carbohydrates at all. They provide interest, but are not necessary. And they certainly feed yeast if there is overgrowth of the fungal candida. I can't believe how differently I feel about carbs lately. I only eat about 100-150 calories worth of carbs these days. Also, Dr. B agreed when I suggested that if I have a bit of fruit with a meal, I should skip any other carbs, or vice versa.
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
I am definitely on the
I am definitely on the relatively low carb bandwagon- in fact I had eaten like that for several years right before getting IC. Even now, I probably eat so many fewer carbs than almost anyone else I know which makes it hard to imagine dropping even more. This is interesting to me because I was eating a healthy Atkins-ish diet for the years before this hit (except for my pregnancy) and yet, i have now been sick for almost 4 years.
That is why I think it is more complicated than it seems. What about the healthy happy Asians and Italians who eat rice and or pasta? Also, I honestly can't afford not to feed my family carbs. We already spend about 400 per week on food! I have 2 growing boys and an athlete husband. My husband runs about 5-8 miles a day right now (cross country season) and if he didn't eat carbs, he'd be passing out.
One of the reasons I like Dr B is that she is actually not usually saying, "Don't eat this or that" Despite the limitations, it is a very reasonable diet not excluding any one food group (besides alcohol and sugar and fungal stuff) She has expressly said that we need some carbs to fuel our energy and I think she also means internal healing energy not just outward physical feeling of energy. I remember she had posted a blog telling people not to tell other patients not to eat carbs.
I just think this is so complicated and at times, I just think "What am I doing?" I want to forget about everything and just eat. Or at least just let the healthy members of the house eat. I am not talking Doritos and a coke of course- which I never ate- but just good, honest food. :(
All my years of dancing with anorexics and judgemental teachers/directors, I never had food/body issues and now, I am starting to feel like I have unhealthy fears and obsessions in a way sometimes.
Thanks for everyone's input!
ps- I am not criticizing
ps- I am not criticizing anybody's choices!
It is complicated at times,
It is complicated at times, isn't it? And we are all so different and in different stages of healing. I hope to move up in treatment to more carbs a day in my diet some day, and to add in spelt...that will be fabulous! My family eats healthy carbs, some like mine, but
some I can't eat. I think I understand better how to
feed my family a healthy, balanced meal with carbs
being around 1/3 of their plate, rather than 1/2 as I
was more prone to do before working with Dr. B. I know they are all getting way more veggies! As
always, it's a learning process!
True Deir, when I came from
True Deir, when I came from dr Grant in London who tells her patients to eat carb free. Dr B told me to include them, to give my body energy to heal. But i now realise that in my case I was eating them too freely, with no restrictions. Dr b told me 20% of a meal is about right, but I'm sure this is different for each patient.
I agree mrs A, I now know how to feed my family better too, carbs don't need to be half of a plate for anyone:-)
I am pretty sure that
I am pretty sure that although quinoa is protein rich, it still counts as a carb...maybe check with Dr. B about the meal you described (with quinoa being the focus). I dont mean that aggressively - trying to be helpful! Beans, too - they are protein rich but should be counted as a carb.
Thanks for everyone's
Thanks for everyone's thoughtful replies! Deir, I hear your frustration. I go back and forth about wanting to let go of the food, and trying to figure it out for my own body. It is hard when you read so much conflicting information on the web about how low carb can help with chronic illness. I DO totally agree that athletes and growing kids do very well with glucose (carbs), and athletes NEED glucose to meet their energy demands. Even the low carb/paleo/ketogenic fanatics would agree with you there! And I agree with Murphy that quinoa, although it high in protien, is still considered a carb, as are beans!! Dr. B just told me if I was going to cut back on grains to do beans, quinoa or starchy veggies.
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
I wanted to add that I am NOT
I wanted to add that I am NOT recommending people go low carb, against Dr. Brizman's wishes. I do agree we need energy for healing. However, a lot of people with chronic illness use a ketogenic diet, so it is not unheard of. From what I read, to feel good on a low carb diet, you have to eat significant FAT, moderate protein and low carb and this then switches your body's fuel source from that of a sugar (glucose) burner, to that of a fat burner. This can take 3 weeks, and for a portion of that time, while the body is shifting, you can get a carb-flu (headaches, body aches, etc..) which is your body beign deprived of carbohydrates which is the fuel it is used to. I think once you get past that you feel better. But obviously Dr. B feels differently about this.
If we don't excel at health, the only other option is disease.
Thanks for that thought.
Thanks for that thought. Quinoa is a seed, not a grain. Like, let's say, sunflower seeds. And as far as I know, all seeds&nits are considered protein. But I'm going to check out quinoa carb content. And you are right, good idea to check with dr. B about this also. Great to share ideas:-)
Hi CO,
Hi CO,
When I tried quinoa, Dr. B told me to treat it like a starch. It is pretty high in starch, if I remember right. She also told me to not treat nuts like a protein, and to use seeds lightly, such as sunflower seeds. This is just for further reference for those who might read this thread. I reread your original question and perhaps having quinoa with added garbanzo beans
( which would constitute a double starch) and no other added protein might be causing some problems, especially if consumed often. I hope this all helps you to get better.
P.S. Mimi, Dr. B told me the
P.S. Mimi, Dr. B told me the same thing last week about fruit, and I am following this for four days now and really seeing positive results!